Hello and welcome to Health for a Lifetime. I'm your host Don Mackintosh. Today we're going to talk about insomnia which means... well, we'll learn more about it in a minute as we talk to our guest. Our guest is Dr. David DeRose. He's a physician from southern Oklahoma. He started a ministry entitled, "CompassHealth," available on the internet, compasshealth. net Dr. DeRose we're glad that you've joined us. It's always good to be with you, Don. Now you trained in internal medicine, which is looking more closely at medical conditions, but also you're interested in preventive health, in other words preventing things. CompassHealth - tell me a little bit about this ministry. CompassHealth has been around for about 3 years. We really started the ministry to focus more on giving broader dissemination to health wisdom that God has given to His people collectively. We just find out in the market place that many people don't recognize the really cutting edge insights that God has in the scriptures and scriptural principles. So CompassHealth has started with that in mind. We do a lot with various types of media. I host a regular radio show and a number of TV appearances of which we are doing one right now, seminars, and do a lot of writing as well. compasshealth. net Does God have anything to say or science have anything to say about this problem of insomnia? First of all what is it? Some background on it and then I guess you're going to share with us some things to do that are non drug type strategies to deal with it. Well, this is a huge problem. If you just look at medical magazines, medical journals, you'll realize it's a pressing problem because every medical journal, I haven't done a study on it, but it seems like every journal I get has ads for the latest and greatest sleeping pill. People are troubled in our society with insomnia. It's even more frustrating because we're probably driving ourselves harder than ever before and as far as the little amount of time that we spend in bed sleeping, so it's very frustrating if you finally get a chance to lay down and you can't fall asleep! Very frustrating! I don't seem to have this problem in my discipline which is preaching. A lot of people seem to go to sleep during my sermons. But at night their having problems, right? Yes, exactly. The problems really are caused by a host of things. We have what we call primary insomnia. That means where the insomnia is occurring for reasons that the average medical professional would not identify. It's not some clear cut disease state that's causing the sleep problems. But then there's secondary insomnia where actually medical conditions are causing the problems. So it may be a woman who's going through menopause, through the hormonal changes are interfering with her sleep. Could be restless leg syndrome, or sleep apnea, breathing problems, disordered breathing problems at night, So there can be these so called secondary causes of insomnia there's a medical condition. The treatment for those we're not going to say the treatment is not necessarily just what we're going to be talking about today because we want to talk about general strategies. Specific strategies are called for if there's a medical condition that's causing the sleeping problem. The restless leg syndrome - is that mean like your leg is keeping you awake at night? It's sometimes spoken of a movement disorder. Periodic movement disorder can sometimes affect the legs but it can affect other parts of the body as well. So, you're going to share with us some basic principles on how to address this problem. One of the things you say is have a daily sleep routine. That's right. This is something that most people in our culture have gotten away from. In the old days we used to do things in a fairly typical way. We were living closer to the land. Our forefathers were farmers, many of them, and they had to be disciplined. Well, in our culture, what we do is we tend to run on one schedule during the week and another schedule on the week end. And even during the week, if there's a program we want to watch that's on late at night, we'll watch that. If we've got something pressing, now I'm not saying we've got to be, "Uh oh, Don, it's , I've got to start my bedtime routine, it was nice that you stopped by 10 minutes ago but you're not part of my routine, so time to go. " We're not talking about interfering with our Christian ministry and our walk. But at the same time we're saying if we do things in a more regimented way, have a routine, schedule, and a sleep routine, most of us don't make a big enough distinction between our waking hours and our sleeping time. We don't give our bodies any chance to wind down. I've noticed with my children, my 1 month old and my 5 year old, that at certain times if they go past a certain time , o'clock at night and we ramp it up they have a real hard time going to sleep. But if they have a routine they go to sleep. But that routine, just like it's important for the kids it's important for adults and some of the things that can contribute to conducive routine. But the message is though making a distinction between waking activities and sleep. You're balancing your check book at the same time you're watching the evening news and you're thinking about all the problems you're going to handle the next day by writing a list. That is not putting your mind or your body in a framework to rest. So take a shower, take a bath, read something devotional, play a musical instrument for a little bit. Some routine, something that you do that helps you wind down and tells your body "I'm now getting ready for bed. " Ok, what about late night meals? Late night meals - you know the conventional wisdom on this one is they can help you sleep. And they actually can. Some people by eating right before they go to bed it will help them sleep. Many people notice this. They say, "You know when I eat I get sleepy right after. " But here's the problem. If your blood sugar is rising early in your sleeping hours, in other words you've eaten a meal and you go to sleep, certain restorative hormones in your body are going to be suppressed. You're not going to make as much melatonin as your body needs. You're not going to make as much growth hormone. Growth hormone is not just needed by kids to grow taller. It's needed by adults to build up the body from the wear and tear of the day. If your blood sugar is rising you're not going to get optimal levels of those. So yes, eating late at night may help you fall asleep. People recognize that. But it can contribute to poor quality sleep. Many people notice that not only they poor quality sleep they sometimes report more vivid dreams, nightmares, and things when they eat right before going to bed. Ok, so there's a definite payoff and there's not a good payoff. What is some other things we can do to avoid insomnia? Well, avoiding insomnia is great. Treating insomnia or addressing it is also important. One of the things that does both is regular physical exercise. Exercise - we've got to be a little careful with this one. I know we've talked about it before on other programs, but it's important to emphasize it in this context. Physical exercise is important for regulating our metabolism. Many people go to bed at night. They're laying in bed and they can't sleep. They're in a state of what we call hypertonic fatigue. Hypertonic fatigue - now that's sounds important. It is very important and that's why I mentioned it. Your muscles are tense and they're trying to lay there and go to sleep and they can't fall asleep. The strategy for hypertonic fatigue is not rest - it's exercise. But if you're laying in bed and your muscles are all tense and you can't relax, you don't want to go out and run 5 miles because many people will find that late night exercise wakes them up. So what you do at night if you can't fall asleep, this is what I do, it's not frequent, but if I lay down and I can't fall asleep and feel more tense, I'll get up and take a walk. A light, slow walk, maybe just walk through my living room and pray, maybe walk outside my house, whatever. I'm in a fairly quiet area so it's not walking in the streets of Manhattan. The kids are old enough now that the living room is not dangerous to walk through like mine. That's right. So the idea is the light exercise at night if you're having trouble sleeping can be an excellent strategy. But during the day doing more vigorous exercise can help you at night time have your muscles relax and get some of that tension out so you can fall asleep better. I notice that when I do have a good exercise program1 1 in the morning or during the day I don't have to sleep as much.1 1 That's right. 1 Why is that?1 1 It's because your body is operating more efficiently.1 1 At least that's the way that I conceptualize it.1 1 There's several things going on. 1 One is your sleep quality may be better.1 1 Your muscle tension is less when you go to bed.1 1 There's a number of things that happen with exercise1 1 metabolically that seems to be useful. 1 Optimal, daylight sunlight exposure1 you're talking 1 about as well here.1 1 Yes. 1 Most of us live in an artificial environment.1 1 Most of our jobs call for us to be indoors in our culture.1 1 So we're not getting exposed to outdoor light.1 1 People that wake up in the middle of the night1 1 and can't fall asleep. 1 It's o'clock, o'clock in the1 morning and they wake up. 1 They can't fall back to sleep.1 1 Many of these people are helped by getting 1 bright light exposure.1 1 By bright light we're speaking of light like you get outside.1 1 Like what we have right here? 1 This is very bright.1 1 I don't know how many lux this is but a bright day outside1 1 would be like 3,000 lux, somewhere in that range,1 1 that's a unit of light measurement. 1 So yes, this is doing us good even though1 we're indoors 1 recording this.1 1 Late in the day, if the show is being recorded - o'clock1 1 or bright light therapy, if someone 5 or 6 p. m. sometimes1 1 in some parts of the country in the winter months1 1 it may be dark, so they can use a light box.1 1 But the idea is that bright light exposure helps to set the1 1 circadian rhythm and the person will often sleep better1 1 through the night. 1 What about sleep environment?1 1 Sleep environment - this is a very important one.1 1 Some people say. "Hey, I can sleep anywhere. "1 1 That's great if they really can. 1 But most people can't.1 1 There's several qualities of an optimal sleep environment.1 1 One - it should be generally most people sleep better1 1 in a cool environment - not cold so they're shivering1 1 - but a cool environment. 1 They should be comfortable when they're1 lying down. 1 It should be quiet and should be dark1 as possible is the most 1 conducive for optimal sleep.1 1 So what if your husband or wife snores? 1 If your husband or wife snores that1 definitely produces some 1 challenges.1 1 The challenge may actually be worse for them because the1 1 snoring could indicate a tendency to sleep apnea.1 1 So especially if they're stopping breathing at night1 1 they've got a major sleep problem. 1 But for you, that snoring is not helping1 you sleep either is it? 1 I'm not admitting to anything for myself1 but the person 1 that goes through it, yes, probably1 so. 1 I realize that but if you were in a1 room... 1 I had a friend just the other day they1 were telling me 1 that they were at a Christian camp and1 there was some 1 shortage in housing.1 1 So in with their family they moved some other people1 1 and one of those people snored the whole night.1 1 One of the children came in with one of the parents saying1 1 "I can't sleep, I can't sleep. " 1 So, yes, we can relate to this.1 1 What do you do? 1 Many people say the only way I can sleep1 is to sleep in 1 another room.1 1 Other people say, "What is the cause of the snoring?"1 1 Many people if they are over weight and snoring,1 1 weight loss can help address the snoring. 1 There are other techniques that can1 address that. 1 There are surgical techniques because1 sometimes the snoring 1 is really a problem contributing to1 sleep apnea. 1 But the other strategy is just using1 ear plugs. 1 Some people with simple in the ear,1 ear plugs decreasing 1 the sound 25 decimals and then putting1 some white noise on 1 at the same time - fan running, sounds1 of the ocean, whatever - 1 the snoring will just blend right into1 that. 1 Someone told me once to put a tennis1 ball in a sock 1 in your back.1 1 If you got some people snoring and they roll over they hit that1 1 and then they'll go on their side and won't snore anymore.1 1 Sometimes that does work. 1 That's a good strategy.1 1 I'm glad you're the host of the show because that's one1 1 I wouldn't have mentioned. 1 That does work for some people.1 1 We're talking with Dr. David DeRose. 1 We're talking about insomnia.1 1 It's something that is a big problem. 1 Join us when we come back and continue1 talking 1 about this subject.1 1 Have you found yourself wishing that you could1 1 shed a few pounds? 1 Have you been on a diet for most of1 your life? 1 But not found anything that will really1 keep the weight off? 1 If you've answered yes to any of these1 questions, then we 1 have a solution for you that works.1 1 Dr. Hans Diehl and Dr. Aileen Ludington 1 have written a marvelous booklet called,1 1 Reversing Obesity Naturally, and we'd like to send it to you1 1 free of charge. 1 Here's a medically sound approach successfully1 used 1 by thousands who are able to eat more1 1 and loose weight permanently 1 without feeling guilty or hungry through1 lifestyle medicine. 1 Dr. Diehl and Dr. Ludington have been1 featured on 3ABN 1 and in this booklet they present a sensible1 approach to eating, 1 nutrition, and lifestyle changes that1 can help you prevent 1 heart disease, diabetes, and even cancer.1 1 Call or write today for your free cop Welcome back.1 1 We talking with Dr. David DeRose. 1 He's a physician in southern Oklahoma.1 1 We're talking with Dr. DeRose today, about insomnia.1 1 He has a webpage compasshealth. net 1 where a lot of this information can1 be shared 1 even in more detail.1 1 You're keeping me awake here! 1 This program has not put me to sleep1 but the object of this 1 program is to put me to sleep - put1 people to sleep so they 1 can get a good night's rest!1 1 Isn't that right? 1 Well, that's the goal and if they fall1 asleep during the 1 program we'll just consider it a compliment.1 1 So we've talked about several strategies. 1 We won't go over those again because1 there's quite a bit 1 more we have to cover.1 1 But you're saying also avoid unnecessary stimulants.1 1 What do you mean by that? 1 Well, you know the two primary stimulants1 that we use in our 1 country are caffeine and nicotine.1 1 Both of those habits are often things that1 1 people use throughout the day. 1 Caffeine taken even after noon, as early1 as 1 , o'clock 1 in the day, you know p. m. can1 interfere with sleep 1 in the night for many people that are1 sensitive. 1 So really the best policy with caffeine1 is leave it out 1 altogether.1 1 If you feel you must use caffeine, if you're having1 1 trouble sleeping, definitely don't have any of it after1 1 noon. 1 When it comes to nicotine, well I don't1 know of any people 1 that are addicted to nicotine that stop1 using it at noon. 1 Nicotine really is another compound1 that interferes 1 with quality sleep.1 1 They both work together, don't they? 1 They're both stimulants.1 1 Alcohol? 1 Well, alcohol generally in the levels1 that it's used 1 has more of a depressant effect.1 1 So many, many people have found that alcohol is something1 1 that can help them sleep. 1 You don't recommend that though?1 1 No, I don't recommend it. 1 The reason why is sleep is just not1 an all or none phenomena. 1 We have what is called a sleep architecture.1 1 We go through stages of sleep. 1 If you take alcohol it interferes with1 quality sleep. 1 It interferes with the sleep architecture.1 1 You don't get the restful sleep that you need.1 1 So alcohol is not a short-cut to better sleep.1 1 Leave it alone. 1 You're asleep but you're not asleep.1 1 You're not getting the kind of sleep you need.1 1 That's right. 1 What about medications that disrupt1 sleep? 1 Are there any that do that?1 1 Well, there's other medications. 1 Of course we've mentioned caffeine and1 nicotine. 1 Those are drugs,1 1 but we don't usually think of them as medications.1 1 Diuretics, water pills - many people take those late1 1 in the day or even earlier in the day and they're going to1 1 the bathroom throughout the night. 1 Now, I'm not making a plea on international1 television 1 for people to stop using their diuretics1 because if 1 they've got congestive heart failure,1 believe me getting up 1 to go to the bathroom is better than1 suffocating in your sleep. 1 Don't stop your Lasix, don't stop your?1 1 That's right! 1 But if you're on a diuretic maybe for1 high blood pressure 1 it maybe worth talking with the doctor1 if you're getting 1 up frequently - "Is there another medication1 I could use?" 1 Are there some lifestyle strategies1 that would free me 1 from reliance on this drug?1 1 What about ways to position yourself to increase sleep?1 1 Yes, this is an interesting question. 1 Sleep position a lot of people think1 well this doesn't have 1 much to do with quality of sleep.1 1 As we get older, most all of us will experience some degree of1 1 osteoarthritis. 1 These are just normal degenerative changes1 that happen 1 in our bony structure.1 1 Many, many people have problems for instance with back pain,1 1 or arm, or neck, or other pain. 1 Sleep position can have a profound role1 on us. 1 Let's just talk about low back pain1 - very common. 1 If someone is being interrupted as far1 as their sleep because of 1 their low back bothering them, what1 can they do? 1 One of the strategies is to keep you1 knees bent 1 when you're sleeping.1 1 So if you're laying on your back put a large pillow under your1 1 knees so your knees are bent. 1 Behind the small of your back put a1 lumbar roll, a small roll 1 maybe this size or smaller.1 1 Like a towel or a blanket or a special pillow that you can buy1 1 for that purpose. 1 That will help take the stress off the1 low back and if you're 1 not being awakened with pain that's1 great. 1 If you're sleeping on your side, again1 a pillow between 1 the knees, knees bent so that the hips1 are aligned just like 1 they would be if you were standing up.1 1 Should we watch TV in bed? 1 Well, if you have no problem with insomnia1 it may be ok. 1 But for people with insomnia, we say,1 "Look it, make the 1 bedroom a room that is especially focused1 on 1 non-normal-waking activities.1 1 Don't be eating in bed, don't reading the newspaper in bed.1 1 Make the bedroom a place that is not an environment1 1 where you are doing normal waking activities. 1 If I can't go to sleep and I'm saying2 I don't know if I'm ever 2 going to get to sleep, should I lay2 in bed thinking about it, 2 or should I get up?2 2 Common scenario. 2 That's a destructive scenario, really,2 psychologically. 2 What happens, many people who have insomnia2 2 becomes a vicious cycle. 2 Like you said, they're laying in bed2 saying, "I can't sleep, 2 I know it's going to be another terrible2 night, how can I 2 tomorrow, what am I going to do tomorrow?!"2 2 The best strategy to do is if you're getting frustrated2 2 you can't fall asleep, get up, do something! 2 Do some light activity, pray, take a2 light walk, whatever 2 it might be, don't lay there ruminating2 about how terrible 2 it's going to be because you can't sleep.2 2 Maybe people that are having problems with sleep just don't2 2 need as much sleep? 2 Well, it is true there are differences2 in 2 sleep requirements.2 2 This is an important thing to recognize because we've been2 2 doing a lot of education lately about telling people2 2 that we need to sleep more. 2 Because this is a society who are really2 cutting ourselves 2 short on sleep.2 2 So people are getting this message that you're probably2 2 better off having 8 or 9 hours of sleep a night.2 2 As we get older we often can't sleep that much.2 2 And that's ok. 2 If you find that you can't perform the2 next day... 2 If you wake up at in the morning2 and you feel rested 2 say, "Praise the Lord!"2 2 Ok, I'm up early. 2 I can take some time with the Lord before2 anyone's calling 2 me on my phone.2 2 So what do we really normally need, 2 a normal person - say age category?2 2 The rule of thumb that we often talk about - 7-9 hours of sleep2 2 in our adult life. 2 It's a reasonable rule of thumb.2 2 If someone finds in their 70's or 80's they're only2 2 sleeping 6 hours at night, they feel rested when they2 2 get up at , but at 1 in the morning they're tired2 2 well, then take a rest. 2 You can take a nap before noon, before2 lunch time. 2 That usually will not interfere with2 evening sleep. 2 Relaxation techniques?2 2 That's an excellent thing to bring up. 2 Because that's another great thing you2 can do. 2 If you're in bed and you say, "Look2 it, I don't like this 2 DeRose guy.2 2 I like Don Mackintosh a lot better. 2 DeRose says get out of bed when you're2 frustrated. 2 Mackintosh says relaxation techniques.2 " 2 That's another alternative.2 2 So instead of being frustrated laying in bed,2 2 do some progressive muscle relaxation. 2 Progressive relaxations you know like2 when you start with your 2 toes, tense them up and then relax them.2 2 Do the same with your feet and ankle. 2 Just consciously doing some of those2 relaxation exercises 2 can really help.2 2 Without waking your spouse up, hopefully. 2 Yes, you want to make sure and not wake2 the spouse. 2 You've got the message right.2 2 How can I put a stop to racing thoughts? 2 My mind is going round and round.2 2 You're thinking about all the programs you're2 2 recording here at 3ABN? 2 That and whatever else comes up.2 2 There are a number of strategies. 2 One of my favorites is a sleep tape.2 2 A sleep tape? 2 Like is this Scotch tape, masking tape?2 2 No, no, this is a tape recording - a sleep CD.2 2 Or a sleep MP3. 2 Whatever medium you want to record on2 to. 2 What you do is you play this2 2 when you're having trouble sleeping. 2 What you want is you want something2 that is engaging 2 but not stimulating.2 2 Yes, ok, so not rock-in-roll. 2 Not rock-in-roll.2 2 Let me give you an example. 2 Scripture - narrative portions of Scripture,2 the story of the 2 Exodus, Jesus ministry.2 2 You know what happens when the children of Israel2 2 get to the Red Sea. 2 Yes, I know.2 2 Ok, the Red Sea parts. 2 You're not going to be laying there2 in suspense, 2 wondering are they all going to get2 wiped out, right? 2 No.2 2 You don't listen to the latest Stephen King thriller.2 2 You listen to soothing portions of Scripture. 2 That's right - soothing portions of2 Scripture that focus your 2 mind, engage your mind, but do not stimulate2 it. 2 Herbal preparations vs. medications?2 2 Well, there are herbal preparations that have2 2 sedative effects. 2 One of the more popular ones is Valerian2 seems to be 2 generally safe and somewhat effective.2 2 Chamomile is on the list. 2 There are other things that are sometimes2 used. 2 You have these listed on compasshealth.2 net? 2 Yes, on compasshealth. net we have a2 list of some of these 2 common herbs.2 2 Melatonin use? 2 Melatonin does have a role in my opinion.2 2 It's being used therapeutically. 2 We encourage people not to get melatonin2 from natural sources. 2 And the reason a lot of people are surprised...2 2 "Dr. DeRose, you are always advocating natural therapies. "2 2 But natural melatonin can come from the brain of animals -2 2 pituitaries of animals- and with our concerns for mad cow disease2 2 and related disorders we are very concerned about not using2 2 organ sources for the melatonin. 2 And that says on the bottle?2 2 It may say on the bottle, it may not, you may need2 2 to call the company. 2 Make sure that you're not getting that2 kind of melatonin. 2 Vitamin B12?2 2 Vitamin B12- many people are deficient in Vitamin B12.2 2 There does seem to be some evidence that it may have a role2 2 in some of the things that people awake if their2 2 deficiency has nerve related functions. 2 So make sure you're getting adequate2 Vitamin B12. 2 Ok, herbal preparations vs. medications,2 you're saying avoid 2 the medications if possible?2 2 Well, I'm not going to say there is never a situation where2 2 a person would use a medication. 2 I'm not going to be that cut and dried.2 2 If you're in a hospital situation, if you've got some2 2 acute loss and your doctor prescribes you a sleeping pill2 2 for 7 days, I'm not going to say it's wrong under all2 2 circumstances to use that. 2 But really beware - typically people2 responsible in sleep 2 medicine are saying that these sleep2 medications generally 2 are short term strategies.2 2 You need to look at the bigger picture - what's keeping2 2 you awake - look at some of these natural strategies2 2 that we've prepared and try to use those. 2 There are several others that we're2 not able to get to, but 2 the one I want to end with - you're2 a Christian clinician, 2 compasshealth. net is all dedicated2 to the Lord, 2 you're involved in ministry with your2 family and children - what 2 does God's Word have to say about insomnia?2 2 What are some principles there? 2 Well, you know there are a lot of things2 in the Scriptures that 2 deal with principles that we've been2 talking about, Don. 2 One of the texts that comes to mind2 is in the 2 Gospel of Matthew.2 2 Jesus is always reaching out to us, comforting us2 2 with who He is and how much we mean to Him.2 2 I'm looking at Matthew chapter 11. 2 A very familiar verse to most of our2 viewers, I'm sure. 2 But there at the conclusion of that2 chapter Jesus invites us. 2 He says, "Come unto Me all ye that labor2 and are heavy laden 2 and I will give you rest. "2 2 That's a wonderful promise. 2 Jesus offers us rest in Him.2 2 And really, if you look at it, a lot of the anxieties that we2 2 have, a lot of the things that keep us agitated are because2 2 you and I to some extent when we're in ministry we don't fully2 2 allow Jesus to give us that rest. 2 I know it's true for me.2 2 When I find myself kind of anxious about something2 2 it's just really a call to prayer, kind of refocus.2 2 It doesn't mean all the anxiety goes away, I sometimes have2 2 used a sleep tape when things are really intense, I'll listen2 2 to Scripture, I'll listen to an inspiring sermon or something2 2 that's not too engaging because I've listened to it before.2 2 But the Lord really wants to give us that comfort and peace.2 2 Well, thank you so much for joining us and every blessing2 2 on CompassHealth and the ministry there. 2 Thank you for putting up that website2 with all the resources, 2 as well, for our folks.2 2 And thank you for joining us on Health for a Lifetime.2 2 I hope that as a result from today's program you can find2 2 some strategies that can help you get the rest2 2 God wants for you.